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 Post subject: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:47 pm 
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So who's going to be the teams to beat heading into next year...

I think the following are the teams to watch:

Liberty
Sidney
Northmont, if Kara gets quality help.
Beavercreek

Who else? I'm not sure who has what returning.

We should be decent with our full lineup, although I might have an A and a B team filled with 7 seniors and a junior. Doubt we challenge for a state title though.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:16 am 
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Our second scorer, who is an excellent religion/philosophy specialist, is returning, and one of our rising sophomores is coming to camp with me this summer. I hope we can crack the top 10 at states again.

Scioto returns Clark Smith, so they should still be on the radar.

I wouldn't expect Solon or Copley to fall off either.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:55 am 
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Solon and Copley will be competitive as always, but they will definitely drop off some from their teams of these last two years. It'll be interesting to see what happens - the state is VERY wide open next year.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:36 am 
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Dublin Jerome will probably finish in the top ten next season.

Miami Valley will probably finish in the top ten next season.

Am thinking:

1. Sidney (although replacing the since-graduated Aaron Jensen could be tough.)
2. Solon (yeah, most - if not all - of the A team graduates. Still generally has a solid B team, and they've always been able to find four kids that can get it done. I don't think it'll be any different this year. Also, success begets future success - top 10 finish at HSNCT two years ago, NAQT + OAC titles last year, and strong finishes at NSC.)

3. Beavercreek (unsure if they're top 3 caliber, but their star is going to be a sophomore in 16-17 and I've found that freshmen can make significant leaps in production between freshman and sophomore year. Regardless, they'll be solid. It shouldn't be too hard to find three kids to be solid sidekicks alongside their captain.)
4. Miami Valley (like Beavercreek, this may be premature, but the sky is going to be the limit with the MS'ers now freshmen, reinforcements have arrived alongside Max Mader, who'll have a solid season in his own right.)
5. Boardman (should do solid on NAQT, returns a heavy heap of talent and production.)

6. Dublin Jerome (if I heard Coach DiGiacomo correctly, the team at Regionals were all freshmen and sophomores. I'm pretty sure Simon and Andrew both return for them. Now that Jerome has more experience under their belt, they've hit the ground running. They can most likely finish higher than 6th.)
7. O. Liberty (deep program, graduates a few seniors but will have the pieces to put together a formidable A team. MS teams in previous years should be coming around soon, I think?)
8. St. Charles (always a really good bet to finish top 10. May or may not be a team that'll average 20ppb and >5 powers a game, but will definitely be that team you can't neg against.)
9. Dublin Scioto (Scioto will probably finish higher than ninth. The problem I'm up against when ranking them is, while Clark is good, very rarely has Scioto had a team where the #2 player has been able to consistently snag more than two tossups in a game. They've always had strong players, first Arjun, then Koh, now Clark, but every other team I have listed above Scioto will have some semblance of balance. If Clark gets help, the Irish's stock moves up.)
10. Copley / Northmont: always solid programs. Unsure of who Copley returns, I know Kara returns for Northmont. Am thinking at the end of the year, both Copley and NM will finish in the top nine - it's just right now every team above, except for Solon, all return strong pieces to their teams.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:58 am 
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I don't want to speak for Copley as I'm not really sure of what's going on, but I do know that Will and Zach are graduating, which leaves Kevin, Tommy (who I believe was top scorer for them all year), and Srikar from the A team. I'm not sure who they have coming up, but I think the middle school team did pretty well at MSNCT this year, so depending on if they get anyone from that team coming up to HS, and if they are motivated to study, they could be pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:00 am 
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Wasn't sure if Kevin graduated or not. If they return him then they'll definitely be solid.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:13 am 
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I have spoken to Kevin quite a bit, and it seems to me that he's not that interested in devoting a lot of time to studying for this next year. I don't expect him to (and I don't think he expects himself to) be a lot better next year than he currently is, if at all. With that said, with Zach and Will graduating, I think that puts him in a better position to probably have a higher PPG because he was competing with them for a lot of science/math tossups.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:11 pm 
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1. Sidney Nour is killer but the twins graduate with him next year. This could be the end of a dynasty.
2. Solon as Tom said relock and reload
3. Miami Valley 2 of the 3 MSNCT team are now in HS and Tyler will probably put all 3 on HS if he has charge of it. Gogers are going to ACE Max needs focus.
4. Boardman Pranav and friends still have 2 more years.
5. Dublin Scioto has recruitment issues but Clark will tear it up for two more years and I think he'll be at ACE.
6. Northmont Kara can put up some points!!!
7. Beavercreek if they go to tournaments they could kill it.
8. Copley their underclassmen should gain some good experience.
9. Walnut Hills if they go to tournaments they could kill it.
10. O. Liberty 8 seniors graduated but we get 3 MS next year that placed T-21 at MSNCT. the 3 Freshman should be at the DCC camp. We have two good Senior buzzers one of them is going to ACE for the 2nd time. Juniors we have 1 going to ACE and 2-3 that could add if they show up and 1 awesome sophomore. It will be an adjustment year but we should fare well. We will not be at many NAQT events this year as HSNCT is the same date as graduation.
11. St. Charles relock and reload
12. Maumee Valley Country Day depends on who graduates but this school could put NW back on the map like Ottawa Hills and Defiance used to.
13. Dublin Jerome has Andrew returning and hosted for the first time. They are starting a nice legacy. Roger Jin came back and read for them.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Maumee VCD - interesting plug. Their stats from the tournament at Columbian near Tiffin weren't too bad. I don't think anyone is intentionally leaving them off, it's just that they don't do many tournaments (plus they're nestled in a corner of the state that doesn't have much going on).


While we're on the topic of the NW...

Sylvania Southview - had a player sign up for NASAT tryouts. Actually, looking at staaaaaaats, they seem to have tore up the league near Toledo.


Maybe Greg can fill us in on what's happening in Lucas County and the greater Toledo area. (Sidebar: I wonder why neither MVCD nor Southview did the OAC Competition this year. Not to speak ill of Elyria Catholic nor Bowling Green, but I imagine either one of MVCD/S. SV could've won that regional had they done it.)

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:32 pm 
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Perhaps Coach Bergman or Bob, or someone up near Cleveland, can inform as to what Lakewood and Brecksville-Broadview Heights, or any other schools for that matter, return.

Anyone know if Benedictine got into competition? I believe their advisor posted on this board at the beginning of this previous school year.

How about Newbury? Did they graduate most of their production?

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:00 pm 
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I don't know why MVCDS, Sylvania Southview, or Ottawa Hills for that matter chose not to do NW Regionals. I know I talked to each of them about it.

I don't know what's going to happen to the MVCDS program. Their longtime coach, Nancy Buccilli, died about a month ago.

Newbury graduates a ton of their production. I think a number of the top small school programs were loaded with senior talent. I'm not sure if that applies to Beachwood, though.

As far as my leagues...

Wayne: Smithville had the deepest bench of all the schools. Their B team went 4-5 for the second straight SSNCT and they got a C team in the field this time, too. Triway graduates its top player. Assuming we don't add anyone, the others in the league don't have the experience to challenge the Smithies.

Toledo Area: Sylvania Northview has a very high-scoring player returning. They and Ottawa Hills will be right up there. Southview and Bowling Green can probably make a run as well.

Portage: Aurora is the odds-on favorite unless Cloverleaf joins.

Ashtabula: Lakeside should repeat. Hoping to get Conneaut and Geneva back, and perhaps some other northern Trumbull schools this time around.

Mahoning: Boardman should win the strongest First Division in the history of the competition (including Harding, Poland, Canfield, Fitch, Lowellville, South Range, and East Palestine). I'm hoping to get at least one more school to make 24, but if we get more, I'm happy to go to 28 or 32.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:55 pm 
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I hope Bexley does more tournaments. They've always had a group of kids who, if they acclimate themselves to the conventions of quiz bowl, could do really damn well. If they're still small school eligible (according to Greg/NAQT, they were a few years ago) may I suggest that they qualify through an NAQT tourney and go to SSNCT?

Dublin Coffman - generally has had teams that can answer their team Q's right on the first time for OAC. Drove down to regionals at Portsmouth a few years ago. Maybe I'm overstating the value of intradistrict participation, but if Jerome and Scioto are on the circuit - why not them?

Olentangy HS - would love to see them do more tournaments. Large high school, good academics - shouldn't have too much trouble finding four players that can get them into a top afternoon bracket at the average Saturday tournament.

Grove City - they were stronger than two years ago. Hope they keep at it, and I hope if they keep at it, maybe we'll see their neighbors Central Crossing (who did Brain Game this past year) get into the game.



Southern Ohio

Minford - believe they graduate both Michael and Alex, but IIRC their JV team put up some solid points - particularly by JV standards - at Golden Shamrock last fall.

Wheelersburg - always has a good squad. Will probably play for the Southern Ohio Conference title (or is the Scioto County ESC league?) vs Minford, which if I recall correctly is usually how that plays out.

Unioto had a freshman two years ago, believe his name is Thomas (always a good quizbowl first name :mrgreen: ) who fared well on the SCOP set at the inaugural Cavalier Classic. (Can't find the results first-hand to validate it, I just remember reading for them and being impressed with him.)

Glancing at SCOL results - if JV results are an indication, Hillsboro should have a solid player coming up. Perhaps Coach Queen can speak more to SCOL / Ross County.



P.S. Where did Roger Jin end up going for college?

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:31 pm 
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Bexley is in the NE ITK league and we are switching to NAQT questions. They have flirted with a MS team and they made it to Shatey II.

Dublin Coffman No idea what happened here sometimes they are in the Buckeye 10 league and sometimes not.

Olentangy HS - and Orange have been asked to come to our tournaments every year and they are still enjoying Chip Bowl in the 4 county. They were asked to come to the NE ITK but to no avail.

Grove City - Kelsie does a great job and almost came over to NE ITK but they stayed in the 4 county Chip Bowl



Southern Ohio Josh chime in other than Adena is more active and Huntington/ Waverly hosted this year 1 PACE/ MS and an NAQT set.





P.S. Where did Roger Jin end up going for college? He's playing Quizbowl for Harvard

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:48 pm 
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We played Lakewood once (and got smacked) and Brecksville not at all... I honestly don't know anything about their grade levels but if either of them return 2 or more players, they'll be one of the favorites in NE Ohio. Cloverleaf was almost all sophomores from what Cameron told me early in the year, and I expect them to be much improved. I know a lot of the points on Copley's MS team came from 7th graders this past year - That Hazlett kid comes to mind and the one other kid whose name I can't remember.

It'll be interesting to see how things shake out. I'm already looking forward to next year.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:32 pm 
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Thanks for the kind words and generous rankings, Tom and Cortney! I'm not sure if MVS is ready to move into the top five in the state just yet, but our players are excited for the upcoming year nonetheless...it will be fun, even as our youngsters try to adjust to the high school game. I'd put Sidney, Beavercreek, and Northmont ahead of us in our region right now, probably in that order.

I'll chip in my two cents on rising freshmen, since most of my experience last year was watching middle school tournaments (this is assuming people play, of course):

Copley will be able to draw from a very balanced, experienced middle school team. Nathan Hazlett was their most solid eighth seventh grader, particularly on lit, and I watched him get some really early powers on canonical stuff. He was supported this year by Frank Mularcik (history, I think) and Jun Sun (math & probably science), both of whom could go for 3-4 powers a game on MS questions. This unit improved a ton from 7th to 8th grade 2015 to 2016, and I think a couple of them have been to ACE camp and plan to go again.

Liberty will welcome Sean and Ian McCabe, both of whom have strong knowledge across the board and a lot of confidence on the buzzer. I believe science and math specialist Nitish Dashora will also be a ninth grader...he knows his subject very well at the middle school level.

I don't know if Wooster HS gets out very often, but they did do well at Copley's OAC tournament and showed up on the OAC NE Regionals team list. Their middle school (Edgewood) had three eighth graders this year, all of whom were around a 50% power percentage on MS questions by the end of the season. Sophia and Olivia Van Sickle are very competitive, very driven, and very good, particularly with geography and arts if I remember correctly. Their group could be well-suited for success in OAC right away and help the Generals snake an OAC State bid somewhere down the line if they stay together.

Miami Valley will send up John John Groger as well as Eleanor Peters, Jordan Bradstreet, and Shraya Sandhir from this year's MS state/nationals team. I have hope that all four kids will stick with the game and play a lot of events during the year, although some growing pains will be inevitable.

Of course, new players come from everywhere, not just the MS ranks, so it'll be interesting to see who else pops up!

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Last edited by trbenedict on Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:51 pm 
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I believe St. Mary('s) School in Wooster did MS quiz bowl as well this past year. Seeing as how there is no Catholic high school in Wooster, maybe a few of those kids will go to Wooster HS. May or may not be a strong connection I'm making there, but hey, buzzer experience is buzzer experience.

Re: the Olentangies - I remember being a freshman and being amazed by the lack of suburban Columbus schools (the OCC) participating in the circuit, let alone an occasional Saturday tournament. Compared to then, it appears more schools now are getting active or are at least considering playing. It's a shame neither of the other two Olentangy schools seem to be interested. Maybe you'll have better luck with Olentangy "IV", whenever that gets built.

Re: my prediction - that could be how it ends up, top five, although truthfully those projections operate under the assumption the kids fulfill their potential; it also assumes they'll have a seamless transition from MS-1n/MSNCT to IS level questions.


West Central should be stacked. After two straight runner-up finishes at OAC, I'm sure Nour and company is hungry for the state title. I had Northmont below Beavercreek and MVS in terms of statewide, but seeing as how the Beavercreek pick really only makes sense if they play more tournaments and get the experience (talent is obviously there, but experience is what determines a game between similar-strength opponents), and the MVS pick banks on their kids not skipping a beat and adjusting to the high school game well (and I suppose not getting burnt out), Northmont could easily be the second best team in western Ohio. If Kara can get help from the seats next to her, like Bob mentioned, then Northmont-Sidney games could go to the final few tossups.

Two teams we haven't mentioned for area code 937 are Tippecanoe and Centerville. The Elks of Centerville were the #1 playoff seed at Northmont's January OAC tournament. I've read for Centerville a couple times the past two years and they looked solid. I don't know who they bring back, so I'm not really qualified to speak on them - but like Beavercreek, if they go to more tournaments it'll only help. I'm not sure who returns for Tipp, so it's hard for me to really say anything there.


Admittedly, it may be too early to really create a ranking of the West Central teams (darn, I knew ranking the teams in June wasn't as a great idea), since there's a whole summer to study during between now and Opening Day and some conditionals I mention, of course, may or may not come about. I think we can agree, however, West Central 16-17 will be stacked. Not to jump the gun, but maybe later in the year we can revisit the WC prognostications and see how expectations in June compars to reality in January, then April.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:50 am 
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Quote:
Nathan Hazlett was their most solid eighth grader, particularly on lit, and I watched him get some really early powers on canonical stuff.


Nathan was only a 7th grader last year. Frank, Jun and William were 8th graders, among others.

https://sites.google.com/site/copleyac/middle-school

EDIT: And that in itself is scary because Nathan is a fantastic player right now on both MS and lighter high school questions.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:39 am 
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You're right...somehow that whole Copley-Fairlawn A group exists as one big unit in my head. Original post has been corrected. With that being the case, I certainly look for Nathan and C-F to continue their big presence on the MS circuit next year. Other middle schoolers to watch: Nick Carrino (Copley), Arvind Nair (Hyatts), RJ LaRosa (Hyatts), William Groger (Miami Valley).

Tom's right to bring up Tipp and Centerville as additional contenders in the Dayton area...Tipp will be looking at sophomore Michael Vestey to take another step up (he won the Ohio JV History Bee last year), but if he can make that leap and get a little help then the Red Devils should be solid. Centerville has graduated about half their team and the majority of their scoring (at least in tossup-bonus), but they will likely be able to reach into their vast halls and pluck out another iteration of strong talent. I perceive that quiz bowl takes a back seat to a lot of other academic competitions at Centerville, but those other activities also give them access to a pool of knowledgeable specialists, especially in OAC format. Centerville narrowly beat Beavercreek in the GWOC regular season and at Regionals, and maybe those two schools can develop a little rivalry and help draw each other out onto the circuit a bit more.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:12 pm 
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RE: Tom you are correct about St. Mary's. Another question is also where will Jasmine from Heritage Classical be. She can put up 70-110 ppg on MS questions. I don't remember what grade she is in but she may end up in Stow-Monroe Falls (Ike Jose's old school) or some private school in the metro Cleveland area.

Re: the Olentangies - I think that Olentangy #4 will be called Olentangy Berlin or Olentangy Berlin Station.

I think that within a few years the Columbus area will be more developed akin to the West Central and NE areas. In years past St. Charles + Fisher were the two major teams in town. Bexley, CAHS and Scioto sporadically jumped into the TU/B world depending on their students/coaches. St. Charles/Fisher/OSU were the ones that hosted. Now Scioto, Jerome, Harvest Prep, Bishop Ready, Olentangy Liberty, New Albany and Bexley/ Pickerington North(to a slightly more consistent extent) have made the leap into TU/B. Gahanna-Lincoln, Tree of Life, Highland, Sheridan, Buckeye Valley, Wellington, ECOT, Fairfield Christian, Grove City and Upper Arlington have been to at least one TU/B tournament within the last two years. Starting next year the will be two leagues using NAQT questions: 1. Columbus City League 2. Northeast In The Know League.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:58 pm 
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Cynicism time for me.

Central Ohio may have a surge of interest when it comes to competing at Saturday tournaments, but only a few of those schools later went to a second TU/B the same year, or even the next. Don't get me wrong, when I saw those schools you mentioned register and play in tournaments, I was excited for them and the fact Central Ohio's QB was getting more active. But since then, of the schools you mention in that second grouping, only Pick North and Wellington (not counting ECOT here since they're not really a Central Ohio school) have gone to an additional TU/B event. Tree of Life has been to tossup/bonus events before a few years ago. If more of those schools play, then by all means good! I'll eat my words - but there is precedent to this: when I was in high school, Hillard Davidson, Coshocton, and Newark each came to a tossup/bonus event once, Westland went to an OAC event; I haven't seen any of those four at a tournament in a hot minute. Even probably the second-most active school located in Columbus proper a few years ago, Whetstone (on par with CAHS in terms of tourneys participated in a given year), has fallen off the radar (yes, they do Columbus City League - that doesn't really mean they're active, though). The Braves of Clintonville used to do several OSU tourneys and OAC events. Would love to see them back into the fold.

It doesn't help that the club of the state's flagship university hasn't done much in the way of hosting lately nor reaching out of Central Ohio schools. Not to willing to impugn the current group at Ohio State since last year was the first year of the new director/club president, plus I still plan on having a working relationship with them and host at least one tourney there, but there's no reason (IMO) why they can't scrounge up enough readers to host a 24 team tourney (how many students at OSU probably played some semblance of quiz bowl in high school, or have proctoring skills, and would be willing to read at a tourney from 9am-3pm in exchange for free pizza?) I know recruiting college kids for a club might be tough, but I have a tougher time believing only five or six readers is the best they can do.


And I'm not saying anything that's ground-breaking, but the supplemental contracts often change hands. There is a school in a league I played in, who shall remain nameless on this board, where Coach "A" was willing to drive them 2.5 hours for OAC Regionals, then immediately the next year Coach "B" takes over and isn't even willing to drive them to the Golden Shamrock. Heck, I just got done talking to the former coach of a Central Ohio program that flat out said "we didn't like Saturday tournaments". O.K., really no point in trying to change his mind. Odds are said person probably told the current coach that Saturday tournies aren't worth one's time. Goes to show that some coaches just aren't interested in getting into the game, or in other cases get an impression of the game and it sticks with them for years.

Again, none of that last paragraph is really new information aside the anecdote, but I guess that help explains why I'm not as optimistic that more schools will jump in on the fun _en masse_. I and everyone else would love to see more schools join in. I think will see a few more schools become more active in 16-17, a la Jerome and Grove City these past two years; we may also see more "new" schools dip their toes into TU/B... at the same time I still see it as taking a good long while before a Central Ohio circuit with 8-10 programs, who aren't SC + FC, who'll play more than a few events/year pops up. So far there's Scioto, Jerome, Liberty, and probably Harvest Prep (and all four look like they'll be in quiz bowl for a long time, which is good.) Are there any others? I'm not trying to neglect mentioning any Central Ohio schools that are doing 3+ events a year that are also relatively new to the block... I just can't think of any others off the top of my head.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:05 pm 
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I would say that Unioto, Minford, Waverly, and Hillsboro are teams to watch in southern Ohio.

Unioto does still have Thomas going into his junior year. He is still a very solid player. They have a team that is improving overall. They also have a young coach that is interested in going to more tournaments and growing the program.

Minford has been one of the consistent travelers in our area. They started traveling around I believe before anyone else in our area. They have an experienced coach by our standards.

Waverly also has an experienced coach and a junior that has been a standout since freshman year. I would not be at all surprised to see Tyler leading tournaments in scoring this coming year.

Hillsboro is an interesting case. They travel some. They have a very good coach. They often show up with almost 20 players. The big thing is they just lost their entire varsity team represented by 8 seniors. They were a very dedicated, good group. They will be rebuilding but as others have stated they had a solid JV team. I also know that as the hallmark of any good program, the varsity players were passing on wisdom all year.

I believe that Wheelersburg plays in the South Central Ohio ESC league. Coach Kilner might be able to tell you better because I believe that is a league he writes for.

Something I would like to point out is that 4 years ago, most of these teams never would have played each other. I wouldn’t be surprised if all four of these teams play multiple times this year.

I would also point out that I have seen huge improvements from a number of teams in the last year. I wouldn’t be shocked to see some of those teams come out of “no where” to surprize some teams at tournaments. The idea of studying for quiz bowl is relatively new so a person or two on a team making a real effort for improvement could make a huge difference.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:15 pm 
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Yeah, I write some questions for Bob that get shipped to the Scioto County ESC League, so I'm thinking that's what it is since we write middle school and high school. I couldn't remember if the SOC sports conference had quizbowl too as a part of all-sports or not.

Hillsboro has been to Northmont OAC before (I'm pretty sure?!) and Golden Shamrock. Yeah, I remember they brought a handful of kids the time I read for them. They had a girl, I believe her name was Victoria, who put up some serious points, but she probably has long graduated.

Quote:
Something I would like to point out is that 4 years ago, most of these teams never would have played each other. I wouldn’t be surprised if all four of these teams play multiple times this year.


While I still advocate for teams to do some traveling, I also recognize that a few years ago the only option really was to travel. Now, it seems like they don't have to travel far for a couple Saturday tournaments, which in my opinion is a good thing. I would speculate if teams can get comfortable with playing local tournaments, particularly TU/B, they'll be more willing to travel for tournaments in Columbus, Dayton, etc.

Quote:
I would also point out that I have seen huge improvements from a number of teams in the last year. I wouldn’t be shocked to see some of those teams come out of “no where” to surprize some teams at tournaments. The idea of studying for quiz bowl is relatively new so a person or two on a team making a real effort for improvement could make a huge difference.

Agreed. From another corner I have, the idea of "coming out of nowhere" intrigues me. He got mentioned upthread, but I remember the first time I played Roger Jin of Dublin Jerome. 2013 Ohio History Bowl, State Championship. It was the first time, I believe, someone from Jerome (let alone Jerome as a team) had done a pyramidal event. Now this was only the opinion of me back then, but I was biased (because of my extensive pyramidal experience) that I held an upper hand over Roger/Jerome in the competition because of experience v. inexperience on pyramidal questions.

It boils down to me and Roger in the finals (Northmont wasn't there, so no Sam Blizzard), winner is State History Bee champ.

Roger Jin beats me.

After losing that one, I learned a good lesson on "not paying attention to who you play, especially on their experience". Roger was better than me, not even disputing that. But from that day on, I knew it didn't matter how much experience a school or a player had.

I can see more "coming out of nowhere" performances as new schools come into the fold.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:29 pm 
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Your cynical post might be correct Tom. I hope that it is wrong but I see many of your points. I am going to continue doing what I have been doing because you might be wrong. I will keep trying to expand quiz bowl until things change or I have had enough. So the only way we will know if your cynicism is correct is to table this for 5 years and pick this conversation back up then.

Side note
The only leagues I know of in my part of southern Ohio that are based on sports leagues are MSL (which you know), SCOL (or whatever the new league will be called), and SBAAC. You also have the 3 teams of Nelsonville York, Wellston, and Jackson playing each other that don’t easily fit into a category. The ESCs are often an issue for quiz bowl in our area because the people that make the decisions rarely have any connection to quiz bowl. The coaches aren’t involved in ordering the questions and often have no idea of what price is paid or how ordering questions works. This means that they don’t need to deal with any money so many have no budgets because the league just takes care of that. That often makes coaches in those leagues unaware of the money side of quiz bowl. Sorry that was my short side tangent.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:28 am 
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"Again, none of that last paragraph is really new information aside the anecdote, but I guess that help explains why I'm not as optimistic that more schools will jump in on the fun _en masse_. I and everyone else would love to see more schools join in. I think will see a few more schools become more active in 16-17, a la Jerome and Grove City these past two years; we may also see more "new" schools dip their toes into TU/B... at the same time I still see it as taking a good long while before a Central Ohio circuit with 8-10 programs, who aren't SC + FC, who'll play more than a few events/year pops up. So far there's Scioto, Jerome, Liberty, and probably Harvest Prep (and all four look like they'll be in quiz bowl for a long time, which is good.) Are there any others? I'm not trying to neglect mentioning any Central Ohio schools that are doing 3+ events a year that are also relatively new to the block... I just can't think of any others off the top of my head."

Well it's probably not new to you but for people outside of Columbus it is. Pessimism helps outreach :). Grove City will not break out but will stay with ChipBowl/regionals. Bishop Ready, New Albany will do more than their league next year. Going to one Saturday non-league tournament is more than most programs do in a year.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:10 am 
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I guess when you put it like that, at minimum a few more schools are doing a few more events. It sounds like a step in the right direction and further along the path than a few years ago.

Here's to hoping more schools pick it up.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:14 pm 
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BobKilner wrote:
We played Lakewood once (and got smacked) and Brecksville not at all... I honestly don't know anything about their grade levels but if either of them return 2 or more players, they'll be one of the favorites in NE Ohio. Cloverleaf was almost all sophomores from what Cameron told me early in the year, and I expect them to be much improved. I know a lot of the points on Copley's MS team came from 7th graders this past year - That Hazlett kid comes to mind and the one other kid whose name I can't remember.

It'll be interesting to see how things shake out. I'm already looking forward to next year.

I believe Lakewood's #1 is an upcoming junior.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:13 pm 
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Alright, so having played against most of the current players or teams themselves that are on the rise this year I'll give rankings of my top 6 for this year, not including Fisher. The field is incredibly even this year as it seems to be the year of new programs and old programs rebuilding after devastating losses. We have rebuilt decently and are going to have a better season than last year for sure. So here it goes:

1. Dublin Scioto: I have had several oppurtunities to play next to and against Clark and he is easily the best player I know personally. He has gone to great lengths to ensure Dublin Scioto will not fall apart after Koh's departure and has added a science player, Sanjay, and a history player. Scioto has a great shot at states for the next two years.

2. Sidney: Nour has been consistantly one of the top 2 or 3 lit players in the state for the past 3 years and will probably be the best now that John is graduated. If he can get somebody to pick up science and history Sidney could be looking at a state title.

3. Beavercreek: I had an oppurtunity to play with and against Hari at ACE this year, and he is easily the best history player in the state now. Unfortunately for Hari, there are no other scorers on his team and he only knows a small amount from the other categories. Beavercreek will probbly win when Clark graduates, but until then they/he will be a valid contender.

4. Copley: Copley is historically a good team with a steady program, excellent coaches, and several state championships (OAC and NAQT) under their belts. Thomas Varley is probably the #2 or 3 lit player in the state with good knowledge in several categories. Srikar is studying science and history so Copley could easily be a tough contender for Clark and the rest of Scioto.

5. Miami Valley: The Groger brothers. The two best players under sophomore year this year are definitely them. They know middle school clues and are branching out into learning the high school canon quite effectively. They will be very good this year and will probably be the main contenders for states in 2020 and 2021.

6. Boardman: Pranav is a strong generalist and is looking to do well this year. If he is able to get help, they will do fine.

As for St. Charles, Northmont, and Solon, They graduated either their top scorers or the majority of their score. Many expect Kara to do well, but she just unfortunately doesn't have the help to keep Northmont at the top of the state. Solon lost Rohin and John, easily the two best players in Ohio last year, as well as Daniel, a greaat music player. Luckily for Solon, they have the most determined player I have ever met, Timmy Huang. I really do not know much about St. Charles aside from their graduating every player on their A team.

As for us, a status update because I don't want to seem biased in rankings. Brock is growing as a lit player and is working to pick up misc. topics. Zach picks up science sometimes and is our third best player now and has grown a lot over the past year. Our 4th, Carter is growing much stronger in US History but has not branched out much past that. Hopefully we are in contention this year. (I personally think we are, as we either beat or came close to all of the top teams last year and most of these teams lost their star players) This is from a player who has played against most, if not all, of the players and teams mentioned in the other rankings. Please give me your thoughts

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:27 pm 
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I don't think it should be too hard for Hari to find three competitive players to complement him. Large school, presumably good resources, good tradition... it may take a while, but I'm sure they're out there.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Regarding the rest of your predictions Hunter -

Yeah, I made my original predictions before NASAT. The relevance of that is...

Clark Smith is arguably one of the best, if not the best, player in Ohio and perhaps one of the best rising talents nationwide. He ate up at NASAT according to the stats, and players can make significant strides from sophomore into junior year.

Sidney will still be with Nour, nothing new there.

Re: Fisher, who knows. I think they'll be solid, but whether they go from being a top ten team into a top five team largely hinges on what can come form seats #3 and #4. All three of Hunter's teammates will be pretty involved in sports, so it largely rests on how much Zach and Carter have in the tank to improve during their respective sports seasons in the fall and winter (really not much can be done waiting to improve the spring of one's senior year); Brock Conrad is definitely improving and is easily Fisher's second best player, hopefully he can hanker down more deeply into the literature (I'm also hoping football and baseball aren't doing many meets on Saturdays [fingers crossed]).

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 Post subject: Re: 2016-17...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:25 am 
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trbenedict wrote:

Tom's right to bring up Tipp and Centerville as additional contenders in the Dayton area...Tipp will be looking at sophomore Michael Vestey to take another step up (he won the Ohio JV History Bee last year), but if he can make that leap and get a little help then the Red Devils should be solid.


As Tyler mentioned, we'll have Michael Vestey leading the way. He beat Hari head-to-head in history bowl and did very well at nationals, but I'm hoping he can be more than a one-category player for us. We have three students attending camp next week, and we have around 5-7 others who will be trying to move up from JV during the year.

But we will take our lumps, no doubt, after Laurel's departure. I'd put us somewhere between 10th-20th in the state, and somewhere in the rearview mirror in the West Central behind Sidney and Miami Valley, as well as maybe Beavercreek and Northmont. We'll be entering the GWOC this fall and I hope we are able to give those schools some competition.

Tipp's had a very long run in the top ten or even top five in some years, which is pretty remarkable for our school size. We're due for a down year or two, in order to rebuild a bit. But usually someone steps up and we win our fair share of matches anyway.

I agree with the other posters that the state seems pretty wide open this year. I think Boardman is my vote for early (dark horse) champion, with Miami Valley, Solon, Scioto and Copley in some order after that. I'm a bit leery of pushing the one-man teams to the top which is why I'd put Sidney, Beavercreek and Fisher in the next group.


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