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 Post subject: FKT @ Ohio State 10/4/14
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:31 pm 
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I, Brittany Trang, would like to invite you and your teams to a quizbowl tournament to be held at The Ohio State University in Columbus, Ohio on October 4, 2014.

Information: We will be using the sixth annual Fall Kickoff Tournament (FKT), a tossup/bonus-style set written by Ohio coaches and alumni. This set has been very well-received in the past and is aimed to be accessible to both novice teams and more experienced teams.

The format will be determined based on the final field size, and we may have a JV division if there is enough interest.

Lunch: High Street, located directly east of campus, has many fast food options including McDonald’s, Wendy’s, Subway, Penn Station, Panda Express, Cane’s, and much more.

Costs & Discounts:
Each team: $40
Buzzer discount: -$5 per buzzer, limit equal to number of teams you are bringing

Payment: The best way to pay is by check or cash on the morning of the tournament. Checks should be made out to the Academic Team at Ohio State University. We can work out other forms of payment if necessary.

Registration: To register, just email me! Please supply information on the amount of teams, buzzers and moderators as soon as you can, however.

Hope to see you in Columbus! If you have any questions, feel free to send me an email (ohiostatequizbowl[at]gmail[dot]com) or post here.

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Brittany Trang
Peoria Christian '13
Vice President, Ohio State '17
Writer, NAQT


Last edited by tintinnabulation on Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Field (updated 10/2/14):
Northmont (2)
Olentangy Liberty (2)
St. Charles (3)
Copley (2)
Dublin Scioto (1)
Solon (2)
Fisher Catholic (2)
Cloverleaf (2)
Total: 16

Waitlist:
St. Charles (1)
George Washington (1)



Tentative field cap: 18

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Brittany Trang
Peoria Christian '13
Vice President, Ohio State '17
Writer, NAQT


Last edited by tintinnabulation on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:15 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:33 am 
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I am proud to announce that our mirror of FKT has been gold-affiliated by PACE, meaning that the top 20% of finishers at the tournament will qualify for the PACE NSC in June 2015!

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Brittany Trang
Peoria Christian '13
Vice President, Ohio State '17
Writer, NAQT


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:17 pm 
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We have 13 teams in the field and look forward to having more! However, due to staffing restraints, we will have to temporarily cap the field at 18 until we make sure we will have enough readers. Please let us know if you are willing to read for us; thanks!

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Brittany Trang
Peoria Christian '13
Vice President, Ohio State '17
Writer, NAQT


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:28 am 
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Copley and Solon are coming down to Columbus to play this? Aight, that's far from what I expected.

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Thomas Moore
Ohio Wesleyan '18

Retired from online, for good.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:05 pm 
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I think it's time for a "Come to Jesus" talk regarding this. First things first, why was I told this would be ran with the intention of it being a mostly Columbus area tournament when half of the schools represented are not from the Columbus area? I understand that the Olmsted mirror more/less fell through, but there is a mirror at Tiffin as well as Youngstown these teams could've gone to. This isn't meant to condemn the coaches, but why are you inviting these teams to your mirror and then turning around saying "due to staffing restraints, the field is capped @ 18"? This tournament is meant to be a fund-raiser for high schools, OSU is running three college events in the fall as well as at least one high school thing in the January so I know your club will be sitting well with how much money you plan on making from hosting tournaments this season. Had I known that your club was hosting three other events in the fall when I was asked about giving the Central Ohio FKT bid to your club, I would've denied it and pursued a different host.

The whole mission of FKT in Ohio is to make it a profitable event for high school clubs, a good introductory event for teams of all skill levels, and even to get new teams out. That last point obviously failed, seeing as how the only decently new quiz bowl school at this event is Olentangy Liberty (who was at Regionals last year). None of that really annoys me as much as the fact you know how many people are in your club, how many are capable and willing to read, and how many coaches you may expect to read, and how many people your club may know that may want to read. This is where you figure out your reading pool and how many people are wanting to read. No one from your club asked me about reading, I would've been able to come down and willing, but I've since committed to read at a different mirror that day. 18 is a very shallow number for your typical OSU event to begin with. This isn't supposed to be a cash cow event for your club, especially since no one from OSU did anything for this set.

We would be having a much more different discussion if this were a 12 team tournament with mostly Central Ohio schools and schools new to quiz bowl. That was the expectation when I granted the mirror. It wasn't an unreasonable expectation since in our email exchange indicated you were pursuing a mostly Central Ohio-centric field anyways. I get it if you honestly can't find as many Central Ohio schools on the first go around and made it a priority to do so, but considering recent tournaments in the past year held in Franklin County have featured schools such as Bexley, Bishop Hartley, Bishop Ready, Columbus Academy, Tree of Life, Whetstone, Dublin Jerome, Dublin Coffman, Westland, Upper Arlington, and Westerville South (all Franklin County schools, no less) and several of those schools did attend an FKT mirror hosted by Ohio State either last year, or two years ago, or even two years ago (Bexley), I find it distressing none of those schools came. I also find it very odd neither Bexley nor New Albany even expressed interest since they came out to Tipp City to play History Bowl in the spring. To top it all off, that Columbus City League has quiz bowl now and they have contact pages on NAQT.

Your club needs to have a reflection on what kind of role it wants to have for the betterment of Ohio quiz bowl and what kind of relationship it wants to have with the Ohio quiz bowl community at large. I think for the most part, many of us have since buried the hatchet between what transpired between the infamous "J'OACcuse", some of the really poorly ran and expensive tournaments we've endured... and to top it all off the general asshole demeanor that was the OSU Academic Team of old (and I am speaking from personal experience on that call). In some ways, the OSUAT has gotten better recently, but there were still low-blow moves like scheduling college tournaments against nearby high school tournaments and advertising for high school teams to come (like the fall tournament last year). And I think that role needs to be made clear, if your club is namely interested in doing college quiz bowl and just wants to host high school for the $$$ to do college quiz bowl, that's fine... but that's something we deserve to know (especially me in this case if I'm free-balling this set to you since it's FKT).

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Thomas Moore
Ohio Wesleyan '18

Retired from online, for good.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:57 pm 
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I have replied to Tom via PM.

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Brittany Trang
Peoria Christian '13
Vice President, Ohio State '17
Writer, NAQT


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:53 pm 
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I'm glad Tom brought this up and while I have no ill will towards OSU, I will say that the original idea of FKT that I (yes I) developed with help from Brian Saxton (he had the idea for an OAC-fall event that was ultimately shot down by the committee), was for it to introduce new teams to quizbowl as well as get new teams to host. The original idea also had the host schools only making enough money to recoup anything they had to pay. It wasn't meant to be a fundraiser at all. I don't blame the 'good' teams for wanting to come together to play each other (Solon, Copley, Northmont, etc.) and if I had a choice to travel to play out in Youngstown against mostly non-power teams or play against some of the best in the state, I would choose to go play the best too, but then again, that completely defeats the purpose of what FKT was developed for.

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Bob Kilner
Chief Admin, ohioqbforum.com
Former Coach, Garfield Heights HS (2001-2008)
Coach, North High School (2015-)
Kent State '06 / Boise State '10


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:18 am 
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[quote="tintinnabulation"]Field (updated 9/22/14):
Northmont (2)
Olentangy Liberty (2)
Columbus Alternative (2)
St. Charles (3)
Copley (2)
Dublin Scioto (1)
Solon (2)
Fisher Catholic (2)
Cloverleaf (2)
Total: 18

Waitlist:
St. Charles (1)


Man, that is a murderers row for sure. Makes me glad we're only driving 15 minutes to Sidney to hear the same questions. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Since I'm not at OSU (or Columbus) anymore, this post should be read as my own opinions and not that of the OSUAT, especially since I have had zero contact with them about this topic.

First, was there really nobody able to host FKT in the northeast? I found it surprising when I first saw the field list, since the Youngstown mirror is closer to Solon and Copley, for example. Granted, we didn't have this problem the past two years, but I'm personally curious as to whether this was OSU reaching out to the northeast or the other way around (i.e. Copley, Solon, et.al deciding this mirror would be better for them). Given there are also two Northmont teams in the field as well despite the Sidney mirror, it seems likely it's the latter, so in that case you can't blame the OSUAT entirely for it.

Also, I'm not quite sure why the staffing restraint is necessarily bad. In the past few years our number of available staffers can fluctuate wildly depending on everyone's schedules (so essentially not everyone in the club is able to staff every tournament), which also makes it kinda hard to figure out months in advance. With (historically) larger tournaments such as the winter tournament and NAQT States, we've also reached out to non-OSU people and coaches to help with staffing, too, and it definitely helps. I can't assume whether they did or not this year just by looking at the numbers, though. I'm also not sure why them not asking you to come help staff (this time, at least) is necessarily bad, since I'm pretty sure Brittany knew about your Southern Ohio mirror to begin with, making asking you to staff FKT at OSU not viable to begin with. If they're aiming to get more (hopefully local) teams to attend, expanding the field at this point is definitely the only option, as I would hate to have to turn down schools with established teams that really want to play on just that basis.

Another point - 18 teams is actually larger than the two previous FKTs OSU hosted - each of them only had 10 teams. It's also larger than most collegiate tournaments I remember hosting, too, so I'm not sure why size is necessarily a problem. Of course, we could have done a better job of reaching out to Columbus-area teams in the past and expanded the field off of that, but that's a different matter.

Thomas Moore wrote:
In some ways, the OSUAT has gotten better recently, but there were still low-blow moves like scheduling college tournaments against nearby high school tournaments and advertising for high school teams to come (like the fall tournament last year). And I think that role needs to be made clear, if your club is namely interested in doing college quiz bowl and just wants to host high school for the $$$ to do college quiz bowl, that's fine... but that's something we deserve to know (especially me in this case if I'm free-balling this set to you since it's FKT).


Since I personally never heard these criticisms when I was around, I'm wondering what specifically you're describing with some of them. I've been aware of scheduling conflicts between high school/collegiate teams and am definitely guilty of lightly advertising to high school teams about it by posting on the forums, but I haven't seen any real problems from it so far. Last year, ACF Fall (which we needed the money from hosting) was on the same day as Tippecanoe's tournament, but the only high school team that showed up was Northmont (with Sam), which didn't have business playing an A-set anyway. MUT conflicted with a trash tournament I was well aware of (and made so in my post) before making a post about it, but I don't see it being a terrible thing if someone would prefer to attend an academic tournament over a trash one (as DCC and Dublin Scioto did). (It also conflicted with a tournament Greg Bossick hosted, but I didn't know about it until a week after I posted.) The bigger issue from this is how it difficult it is at times to schedule high school tournaments as an active collegiate team at a large public university - there's the desire to play tournaments that are often on specific weekends (ex. ACF/NAQT events), in addition to things like home football games that can make it a hassle for attending teams in particular.

Also, if we ran any tournament poorly in the past few years (since 2011, since I wasn't really involved in organizing them until after my freshman year), I would have liked to know why so it could be improved in the future!

Still, I believe you're right in that I'm not sure how much outreach the current OSUAT is doing or is willing to do with high school quizbowl and clarification on that would help, but I don't think it should be automatically assumed that they don't care, just from looking at the field for this and keeping in mind what FKT was meant to do. Maybe they were just unsuccessful at reaching out to Westland and Dublin Coffman, who knows! I certainly don't.

I think some communication over these kinds of things before mirrors are hosted would be a good idea to do in the future so everyone's on the same page.

EDIT: clarified stuff

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University of Tennessee
Ohio State University '14
Solon High School '10


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:08 pm 
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I know that this is a little late but next year we can host an FKT mirror.

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Cortney Bird
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QB Coach @ Olentangy Berlin HS 2018-Present
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