The Ohio Quizbowl Forum

A forum dedicated to discussing all things related to high school quizbowl in Ohio.
It is currently Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:55 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:25 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:43 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Garfield Heights OH
So, I'm pretty much starting over with my JV kids from the past two years, since I'm graduating all five of my varsity players... that said - my JV was not very good these past two years, partially my fault and partially theirs.

Some of the things I'm concentrating on with them this summer are author-work, artist-work, author-characters-work, etc... to make sure we always get those types of things by the giveaways. Obviously, that's common sense in quizbowl. But I got to thinking, outside of simple things like that, what are some of the more common stock clues across the board for various things that I should make them know... I know there are tons, but I figured a running list of posts would be a good start, since everybody has a different area of expertise.

Ok - ready - go!

_________________
Bob Kilner
Chief Admin, ohioqbforum.com
Former Coach, Garfield Heights HS (2001-2008)
Coach, North High School (2015-)
Kent State '06 / Boise State '10


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:07 am 
Offline
Rookie

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:40 pm
Posts: 15
Bob, If you want kids to just learn stock clues, there is a ceiling they will hit where real knowledge will not seem like a good use of time. Author-work, artist-work is not necessarily stock. Stock is like buzzing on "Battle of Sphacteria" with "Pelopponesian War." Nobody really knows what that battle is, but we all know it's there. Also, I would encourage your kids to make their own lists, they are much more likely to use them that way! I have been doing that with my 8th graders and am seeing some pretty good results!!

_________________
Ben Anthony
Harrison '17


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:57 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:43 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Garfield Heights OH
When I was busy winning state titles at GHHS, my kids gladly did that and wrote questions -- the problem with the kids I have now is they have very little motivation as compared to those kids... I could easily just pack it in and be like, fine keep getting your tails kicked if you don't want to study... but my overcompetitive nature won't let me do that.

I understand the difference between the two, I'm just making a point of common-knowledge things they should know as quizbowlers in the way of stock clues and things.

_________________
Bob Kilner
Chief Admin, ohioqbforum.com
Former Coach, Garfield Heights HS (2001-2008)
Coach, North High School (2015-)
Kent State '06 / Boise State '10


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:06 pm 
Offline
Junior Varsity

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:55 pm
Posts: 61
I’m getting brave in my old age.

I wish people would realize there are a whole bunch of ways to skin a catfish. The truth is that the majority of the teams in the state aren’t doing things the “right” way. There might be one “best” way, but encouraging people to do ANYTHING that might help them to get better should be seen as a positive. Yes, there are caveats. Chip bowl won’t help you much. Memorizing random statistics might only help you on TV. I don’t think that starting with lists will lead to your permanent quiz bowl stunting. I feel the same way about it as I feel about coffee. They told me that coffee would stunt my growth. I started drinking it in 6th grade. I'm still 6'5".

Random Noobie “I want to do this thing to get better that won’t take me very long.”

Wise, Old Sage “Well, what you should really do is devote your life to quiz bowl and spend the next 3 months studying in ways I have approved. I can point to an unbroken chain of old masters that all agree this method is the only way to be great. If you do it your way, then you will never ascend to the Olympus of quiz bowl.”

Random Noobie “Oh heck with it. Homie ain’t got time for that. I’m out.”

Scene. We have lost random noobie and now we will never know how great he or she could have been. Random noobie may have been able to get some buzzes at his or her next tournament and got hooked. Instead he or she is going to go back to studying for their next AP Bio exam. That won’t help them with the next Guernica - Picasso buzz.

Before anyone says it, this isn’t a direct response to above, but an observation I have come to in the last 4 years. I’ve just gotten brave enough to say it. If I am wrong, I am sure that many people much smarter than me will tell me.

_________________
Joshua Queen
Physics Teacher
Chillicothe Quiz Bowl Coach
Ohio QuizBowl Alliance Tournaments: https://docs.google.com/a/olsd.us/docum ... sp=sharing
"Yes we play quiz bowl in southern Ohio."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:58 am 
Offline
Rookie

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:40 pm
Posts: 15
ThePocketProtector wrote:
I’m getting brave in my old age.

I wish people would realize there are a whole bunch of ways to skin a catfish. The truth is that the majority of the teams in the state aren’t doing things the “right” way. There might be one “best” way, but encouraging people to do ANYTHING that might help them to get better should be seen as a positive. Yes, there are caveats. Chip bowl won’t help you much. Memorizing random statistics might only help you on TV. I don’t think that starting with lists will lead to your permanent quiz bowl stunting. I feel the same way about it as I feel about coffee. They told me that coffee would stunt my growth. I started drinking it in 6th grade. I'm still 6'5".

Random Noobie “I want to do this thing to get better that won’t take me very long.”

Wise, Old Sage “Well, what you should really do is devote your life to quiz bowl and spend the next 3 months studying in ways I have approved. I can point to an unbroken chain of old masters that all agree this method is the only way to be great. If you do it your way, then you will never ascend to the Olympus of quiz bowl.”

Random Noobie “Oh heck with it. Homie ain’t got time for that. I’m out.”

Scene. We have lost random noobie and now we will never know how great he or she could have been. Random noobie may have been able to get some buzzes at his or her next tournament and got hooked. Instead he or she is going to go back to studying for their next AP Bio exam. That won’t help them with the next Guernica - Picasso buzz.

Before anyone says it, this isn’t a direct response to above, but an observation I have come to in the last 4 years. I’ve just gotten brave enough to say it. If I am wrong, I am sure that many people much smarter than me will tell me.


Bob isn't a "random noobie", but I stand by my offense against stock clues. Quiz Bowl is about the gathering of knowledge, not the ability to associate two words and get points.

Bob, I apologize if this was taken as an affront to your coaching, I have no doubt you are a very capable coach, especially after playing games that you moderated. It sucks to have kids who aren't motivated, as 80% of my teammates are. :roll: I would suggest they anki stuff from old questions to get started. Like kind of make their own stock. :P

_________________
Ben Anthony
Harrison '17


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:27 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:43 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Garfield Heights OH
I realized after the fact that the way I responded came off WAY over the top -- I wasn't offended at all. The point I was trying to make was that while they are almost all pulling 4s and 5s on their AP tests and learning some knowledge that comes up in quizbowl, their bare knowledge of simple relationships like author-work and whatnot sucks. Sure I could have them research all of the authors and learn deeper knowledge, and they will, but right now I need them to just gain that base knowledge. I'm not saying we're going to sit and memorize stock clues, that wasn't the point - I'm just saying they need to sit and learn some list knowledge, even though it can be semi-counterproductive.

_________________
Bob Kilner
Chief Admin, ohioqbforum.com
Former Coach, Garfield Heights HS (2001-2008)
Coach, North High School (2015-)
Kent State '06 / Boise State '10


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:31 pm 
Offline
Rookie

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:40 pm
Posts: 15
BobKilner wrote:
I realized after the fact that the way I responded came off WAY over the top -- I wasn't offended at all. The point I was trying to make was that while they are almost all pulling 4s and 5s on their AP tests and learning some knowledge that comes up in quizbowl, their bare knowledge of simple relationships like author-work and whatnot sucks. Sure I could have them research all of the authors and learn deeper knowledge, and they will, but right now I need them to just gain that base knowledge. I'm not saying we're going to sit and memorize stock clues, that wasn't the point - I'm just saying they need to sit and learn some list knowledge, even though it can be semi-counterproductive.


Ah okay then yes, I definitely support using anki to associate things like Madame Bovary-Flaubert/Emma etc.

_________________
Ben Anthony
Harrison '17


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:01 pm 
Offline
Junior Varsity

Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:03 pm
Posts: 95
In a similar vein, something I've done is find a frequency list or something and then type the answerlines into Quinterest to find what clues usually come up at the giveaway, then the ones just before the FTP, and then the ones just before power (modify as needed). This doesn't necessarily give you a list of "stock clues," per se, but it gives you an idea of people, places, and things that are uniquely identifiable and "askable" at your target difficulty. Once you've done that, you can either make study materials/assign someone to make study materials like a list or something, or you can just assemble a mega-packet of tossups all about the same five books and run through that to show how many different ways the same thing can be asked about.

_________________
Tyler Benedict
Coach, Miami Valley School MS Quiz
Assistant, Miami Valley School HS Quiz
Miami Valley School '09


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group