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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:21 pm 
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I know there are various question writers across the Buckeye State that write OAC format for local leagues and tournaments. I make contributions for one of them, Bob Kilner and Mike Bindis. In recent years my writing assignments for Bob and Mike have been materials used in competition across Ohio, from Scioto and Lawrence Counties (high school and middle school) in the south up to to several leagues in northeast Ohio.

In addition to Kilner and company, who else writes OAC for statewide leagues?

Pyramidal/Good Questions
Bob Kilner et al
David Jones
Brian Easterling
Mike Sedlack (?)


Non-pyramidal/dubious quality Questions
Bryce Avery writes OAC, according to his website, but they're most likely terrible.
Local ESC's (?)
Patrick's Press (?)



Help us out here. Let's make this a list of question writers that write in OAC format.

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Thomas Moore
Ohio Wesleyan '18


Last edited by Get Lynned on Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Joe Czupryn and I write for 12 leagues in Ohio right now, in addition to a pyramidal tournament in Kentucky that uses a repackaged version of some of our OAC questions. Additionally, we write for several leagues that use non-conventional formats, like Shelby County and the league Fisher plays in.

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David Jones
Coach, Northmont High School


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:21 pm 
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I produced the Cloverleaf set in 2015 and 2016 and wrote the toss ups for Copley for the past two years. I'm currently writing the set for Copley's OAC tournament next February.

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Brian Easterling
Cloverleaf '14 Ohio State '18
OSUAT Vice President
OAC Committee College Representative


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Mike and I write 60 league packets for high school and I generally write around 20 middle school packets. I'm also writing two 8-packet OAC tournaments for next year with pyramidal tossups.

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Bob Kilner
Chief Admin, ohioqbforum.com
Former Coach, Garfield Heights HS (2001-2008)
Coach, North High School (2015-)
Kent State '06 / Boise State '10


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:21 am 
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I think this is great. I think we need this kind of transparency. Many of the people who purchase questions for things like ESCs are unaware of options. I know this from personal experience. I know that this is kind of a touchy subject but not talking about it doesn't help. I am also glad to hear about more pyramidal OAC sets being written.

Fingers crossed that this doesn't anger anyone.

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Joshua Queen
Physics Teacher
Chillicothe Quiz Bowl Coach
Ohio QuizBowl Alliance Tournaments: https://docs.google.com/a/olsd.us/docum ... sp=sharing
"Yes we play quiz bowl in southern Ohio."


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:13 am 
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My guess is some leagues that aren't ran by 'quiz bowl people,' but rather activities directors and ESC folks, have bought from the same mass vendor (a la Questions Galore, Questions Unlimited) for 10+ years and never really thought about switching over or exploring new options. I don't write the preceding sentence to be disparaging toward the individuals who put on local leagues, certainly not; rather, the point is that some directors probably aren't aware that better options exist (and that there are better ways questions can be written.)

As to another theory of mine as to why some leagues keep using bad questions: some leagues probably have zero schools that do anything outside of league play. No exposure to different question styles = acceptance of inferior question quality as the norm. Of course, I realize us in the quiz bowl community have a good understanding of what constitutes 'bad' and what constitutes 'good'. Yet, advertising questions as being 'good' to people who don't understand the difference I think needs to come with the appeal to logic, rather than the appeal to rhetoric. Explaining why purely academic questions, particularly those with pyramidal elements, is inherently better than general knowledge questions and one-liners is imperative to get the marketing across, I feel.


Has the OAC body ever considered sending out a list of recommended OAC writers to leagues they have contact information for, with the idea being that "these are the people who write questions most closely to what teams see at Regionals and States"?

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Thomas Moore
Ohio Wesleyan '18


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Quote:
Has the OAC body ever considered sending out a list of recommended OAC writers to leagues they have contact information for, with the idea being that "these are the people who write questions most closely to what teams see at Regionals and States"?


I'm not sure if they have, but considering that all of those you've listed as "good" writers of OAC questions are on the committee, that could be a conflict of interest.

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Bob Kilner
Chief Admin, ohioqbforum.com
Former Coach, Garfield Heights HS (2001-2008)
Coach, North High School (2015-)
Kent State '06 / Boise State '10


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Bob, I agree with you on the conflict of interest. I think that is a huge issue right now for the committee. I wish they would do more to advocate for things that are important to the community. Pushing pyramidal questions (regardless of format) should be important. The problem is that it appears that due to conflicts of interest their hands are tied. The one thing I am sure of, is that if I am wrong, someone will correct me.

I hope that wasn't controversial, but I'm probably wrong.

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Joshua Queen
Physics Teacher
Chillicothe Quiz Bowl Coach
Ohio QuizBowl Alliance Tournaments: https://docs.google.com/a/olsd.us/docum ... sp=sharing
"Yes we play quiz bowl in southern Ohio."


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:33 pm 
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I don't think what you're saying is controversial at all. I think if someone asks specifically for question providers and somebody gives the names of those mentioned as good writers, that's a lot different than if the committee came out and said "we support/promote/whatever these writers of good questions".

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Bob Kilner
Chief Admin, ohioqbforum.com
Former Coach, Garfield Heights HS (2001-2008)
Coach, North High School (2015-)
Kent State '06 / Boise State '10


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:41 pm 
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My problem is that I don't think just an ad hoc situation is good enough. I think that there needs to be leadership on this. The committee would be perfect for that if there wasn't so many conflicts of interest. They would be the perfect people to say, "We think you should do ....." but they can't. I think a group of concerned people should try to do something. That is the thing I don't think is popular.

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Joshua Queen
Physics Teacher
Chillicothe Quiz Bowl Coach
Ohio QuizBowl Alliance Tournaments: https://docs.google.com/a/olsd.us/docum ... sp=sharing
"Yes we play quiz bowl in southern Ohio."


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:41 pm 
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NAQT specifically sells products on their website for practical materials (previous packets) under the pretense that those materials are most like what students can expect to play at NAQT events. Does a conflict of interest not exist there? /Rhetorical


(Actually, for what its worth, I just saw that 2015 and 2016 Regionals and States are on the website. Neat!)

I suppose what's frustrating from my perspective is there has to be an actual solution to the problem a lot of schools face when they don't play anything pyramidal and then they sign up for OAC Regionals. Yes, I know: a simple solution is for the schools to go play pyramidal events and for them to explore more resources on their own. But that isn't a solution. Lead the horse to water, somehow.


Honest question, even though I might come off as tone-deaf: when a person registers their school for OAC Regionals, do they explore the OAC website for what resources could lie? The website is nifty, it's cool; it's got plenty of good things on there! It's got a calendar, but it doesn't seem like tournaments are netting schools that discover events purely through the OAC website. Perhaps this year for regionals, the Committee could look at possibly putting out a survey of how coaches interact with the website.

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Thomas Moore
Ohio Wesleyan '18


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:59 pm 
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This is <really> off-topic for me to suggest, and not to distract from the general dialogue in this board and the points Coach Queen is making, but I feel this topic could really use the input of people that don't ever post on this board. Judging by the fact there are like 100 registered accounts on this board, I know there has to be students or coaches out there that read this board at least semi-regularly, but don't post for whatever reason. I know they have to have some opinion on this issue.

I beg this idea because guys like Bob and I are almost always going to look at certain topics a certain way. Folks such as Coach Queen will look at topics their way, sometimes agreeing with Bob and I and sometimes not agreeing (nothing wrong with that! I and many others enjoy the free flow of thought and exchange of idea.) But I think Bob and Coach Queen would both agree we're all really curious to hear what people who we don't regularly engage with have to say about this topic and many others across Ohio quiz bowl.

Seriously! Post! Make yourself known! I don't bite! I think all of us for the most part have long been curious what people (coaches and students) who don't post on this board think about these issues. Perhaps on the ground level, the face-to-face level, folks such as me can improve on the interaction with people we aren't familiar with, but it's hard to tell half of the time who actually wants to talk quiz bowl and who is just in the role of coaching because their administration told them so. Our discussion can only go as far as the number of people engaging in it. The more nuance, the better. None of us can read the minds of coaches and students who read this board but don't post anything.

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Thomas Moore
Ohio Wesleyan '18


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:39 pm 
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I will go with you on your side tangent. I actually sent out an email to all the coaches I know in the south encouraging them to join. I'm not sure it got too many people, but I did try.

I think the website is great but I wonder if it is the gateway to deeper knowledge. I know it is useful if you already know somethings. It would be interesting to find out if anyone has been brought to tournaments from it by itself. I would encourage the committee to do as much surveying and information gathering from the regional tournaments as possible.

One example is if they could get every team present at regional tournaments to supply any and all emails of coaches they know. You could compile a comprehensive list of all the emails. You could do a once a year informational email. I am aware that there is a lot of turnover but that shouldn't preclude trying. It would be just about the only way to reach teams that never make it to the regional tournaments. I know, I'm crazy.

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Joshua Queen
Physics Teacher
Chillicothe Quiz Bowl Coach
Ohio QuizBowl Alliance Tournaments: https://docs.google.com/a/olsd.us/docum ... sp=sharing
"Yes we play quiz bowl in southern Ohio."


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:47 pm 
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I don't mean to state a conclusion that's already in the background of these posts, but it seems to me that there is a difference between a conflict of interest and a statement of values. To me, it's perfectly acceptable for the OAC as a committee to declare what it believes to be "good quiz bowl," and attempt to persuade teams and leagues to adopt those values as part of its outreach efforts. Rather than saying "You should buy questions from (insert name here)," the committee would be saying "We don't have a say in where you get your questions, but we believe tossup questions should be pyramidal, and have a distribution, and here's what that means, etc. etc." Obviously that sort of outreach, education, and persuasion would take more than one email or post, but it would mean the OAC was clear about what sort of gameplay it seeks to reward at its regional and state championships. (I think this is what Tom is getting at in his post above). Right now, the OAC website doesn't mention much about quiz bowl format or philosophy, even though it seems most of the Ohio community has some general assumptions about what's good or what's not (by "Ohio community," I guess I mean "people who post here" or "people who play on Saturdays").

This may be a long-winded way of saying, Josh, that I think it is okay for the committee to say "We think you should do this," as long as "this" relates to game philosophy and general standards of quiz bowl. Also, to Tom's point about resources on the website, I also think the website is pretty nifty, but it doesn't necessarily steer first-time visitors to resources to improve (instead, you find those under "Links" all the way on the right side of the navigation bar). The emphasis of the website is on regionals and state tournaments, which is understandable, but I don't know if I'd find the link to, say, the housewrite packet archive if I was on there for the first time.

Has there ever been an attempt for a blog series or email newsletter from the OAC with a goal not just to get registrations for regionals, but to disseminate ideas about quiz bowl? If the website isn't a primary resource for info, this might not catch on as much, but it would give the home page some additional content that would be relatively new (the blog links could be off to the side, the way NAQT posts news updates, or part of the main page). Of course, someone would have to generate that content.

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Coach, Miami Valley School MS Quiz
Assistant, Miami Valley School HS Quiz
Miami Valley School '09


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Quote:
Has there ever been an attempt for a blog series or email newsletter from the OAC with a goal not just to get registrations for regionals, but to disseminate ideas about quiz bowl? If the website isn't a primary resource for info, this might not catch on as much, but it would give the home page some additional content that would be relatively new (the blog links could be off to the side, the way NAQT posts news updates, or part of the main page). Of course, someone would have to generate that content.


I've been involved as a player (1999-01), coach (01-08, 15-present) and staffer in between all that and I can't remember anything of that nature being put forward. I think it would be a great idea, but really hard to ever measure its impact and whether or not its worth the time of the individual or individuals creating it.

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Bob Kilner
Chief Admin, ohioqbforum.com
Former Coach, Garfield Heights HS (2001-2008)
Coach, North High School (2015-)
Kent State '06 / Boise State '10


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:15 pm 
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ThePocketProtector wrote:
One example is if they could get every team present at regional tournaments to supply any and all emails of coaches they know. You could compile a comprehensive list of all the emails. You could do a once a year informational email. I am aware that there is a lot of turnover but that shouldn't preclude trying. It would be just about the only way to reach teams that never make it to the regional tournaments. I know, I'm crazy.


I like this idea, I just am not sure if many coaches would have that information on hand (unless they're asked in advance.) Maybe this information can be gathered from the league directors referenced on the Regionals application coaches submit.


I like Tyler's idea. I want to add more to that discussion, but I am currently typing with one hand as my left wrist is broken and it is a wicked PITA to type one-handed. More to come later.

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Thomas Moore
Ohio Wesleyan '18


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