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 Post subject: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:33 pm 
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Placements for 2019 OAC Regionals just went out to site coordinators and coaches via e-mail!

Full Live Results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 5/pubhtml#


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2019 OAC Regionals Placement.JPG
2019 OAC Regionals Placement.JPG [ 128.44 KiB | Viewed 1832 times ]

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Northmont Assistant Coach 2008-2011
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Last edited by gbdriver80 on Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:44 pm 
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Grrrrr Northwest part of the state.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:19 pm 
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The fact there is only one Franklin County school (St. Charles) registered for regionals concerns me.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:03 am 
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I'm dumb, so I'll bite.

How many OAC tournaments, that aren’t OAC State, have been held in Columbus or its immediate vicinity in the last two years? How much actual outreach is done on behalf of the OAC format in the area?

I would caution viewing the lack of teams from the Northwest as some kind of failing on their part. Maybe some research needs to be done to see if teams that are qualified are choosing not to attend. Maybe it should be figured out why teams are making the choice to not attend. I can think of some teams in the Northwest that have clearly chosen not to attend. Maybe we should ask ourselves why they have made that choice instead of judging them for that choice. I would point out that a similar thing has been happening in the south.

A year ago, I tried to ask what the points of the OAC Regional Tournament and State tournament are. From inside the committee, I didn’t get much. The fact that regions are so unbalanced as far as numbers again raises the question that I asked. Why are the odds now better for a team from the Northwest to get to the State Tournament, than it is from West Central? Does it matter? Should it matter?

If I were Sidney, I would thank the heavens that I’m in the Northwest, instead of losing to Miami Valley and Beavercreek. And because I am weird, I checked and Sidney is actually closer to Tipp than Van Wert according to the google machine.

I know that I am going to probably get run out of town again, but I’m getting to the point where I just don’t care that much. I know it will be seen as some kind of attack, but I only ask because I genuinely care. Before my own school’s run of not attending is pointed out, we have not qualified. We have always gone if we qualified.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:19 pm 
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To continue the conversation started by my colleague from Chillicothe, what are the reasons teams from NWO aren't attending? I don't think there is a pat answer but we can look at some past years.

These teams participated in the 2018 Regional but not this year
Toledo School for the Arts Patrick Henry Versailles
Edon Takawanda Blufton


2017 participation
Van Wert Oak Harbor Liberty Benton
Mohawk St. Marys Lima Bath
Bowling Green Swanton Riverdale

Again, no one answer fits all but here are some things I do know

Many of these schools are very small and can not get commitment from these students for QB when other events seem to take priority. I know I personally deal with this and I am from a bit larger school. Musical, track, baseball (softball), or even a percieved lack of talent may keep some teams from being able to commit.

Last Thursday, I took my team to the Mid-Ohio ESC Spring Tournament. Schools that are committed to OAC style of play and the Regional playoff sytem. By the end of the day, that tournament would boast 8 OAC bids in the field. Of those 8, 5 of the last 6 bids that were requested (according to the spread sheet) were from that tournament. 2 had just earned bids that day so it is understandable they were last. The other 3 were under the impression they were going to get an invite from OAC. I had to tell them they needed to get on the site and fill out the form and that the end date was that weekend. Is lack of knowledge an issue?


Do we have knowledgable league directors or directors that care? I know in my case my league director was sent an invoice 6 weeks ago to process for 1/2 my entry fee. I sent a reminder today and that is when she requested a new invoice. Why that wasn't done 6 weeks ago? I have some speculation but can not say for sure.


I am not looking to be a target here. I do not have the experience or platitudes to do so. Just trying to find possible answers. I am sure there are other reasons that I have not covered. I have tried to promote QB and OAC in NW Ohio for a few years. Through email I contacted at least 3 different schools about this year's tournament but none registered.

Like I started with, I am sure there are no cookie cutter answers to the predictament.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:29 pm 
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I’ll preface by saying that I appreciate Josh’s comments to help kick off the discussion — I think this is a worthwhile dialogue to be had on not just the topic of OAC Regionals but also the furtherance of the game, structurally speaking (yes, I believe these are both correlated.)

I agree with Josh on some points, but politely disagree with him on a few.

Where I disagree:

• So, I don’t particularly see the dearth of Central Ohio programs (moreover, Franklin County teams as I originally suggested to) as being the result of a lack of OAC outreach, be it from committee members or even stewards propositioning the OAC format. While it is true that there has been a real lack of OAC events in Central Ohio (no more Golden Shamrock, St Charles Fall, TM’s Primo OAC Fall at Ohio State etc), there were still teams coming out of Franklin County making the 40-minute trek to LAYNE-kas-TUH with or without those events. One of those teams is the defending SE Regional champion, a team who placed 3rd last year at OAC State, who is indeed attending NAQT States the weekend before up in Berlin Township. Other recent entrants from “the 614” include several teams from the fall-time (OAC format) league known, I believe, as the “Buckeye 10.” Nevertheless, it is 2019 and the communality of pyramidal quiz bowl hath flowed the rivers of milk and honey upstream the Scioto and down the banks of the Olentangy — look at recent participants of tournaments such as NAQT States past and present, Coach Bird’s events etc. My question is... what’s stopping these teams, what’s preventing these teams, what’s de-incentivizing these teams from participating in a high-quality pyramidal event that offers more pyramidal questions a game and in general more identity than the typical Saturday tossup/bonus tournament?


• When it comes to the Northwest, I partly agree with Josh and also generally do not agree with Bob’s comment on the surface: I, too, would like to have seen more NW region participants, but I also recognize that it’s a more sparsely populated part of the state that (along with the Southeast, although the SE is a different situation and not as near the extent) has never been able to consistently fill its region. It’s hard to necessarily get on the case of the BW, from my eyes, because of how much geography that region covers — although, there are a few curiosities in ‘Quadrant II’, such as a defending national champion along with the host school both not registering for regionals.


- - - -

On other business, I’m led to believe Sidney to the NW is more-so a combination of both a) ensuring the fields at hand are maximized to fullest capacity (Sidney to NW because of the northwesterly shift of Milford to the WC, because North Adams - an otherwise Southeastern Ohio school - was sent to the SW) and b) the fact that precedence exists for Sidney being a NW entrant(?) and the fact a NW OAC representative is indeed from Sidney HS.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:37 pm 
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My point is the lack of playing OAC during the year disincentivizes teams to go to OAC regionals and learn another format for one tournament. I will admit that I hear from coaches that don’t want to teach their players another format just for regionals. This was more the case when “0-2 then barbeque” was a strong possibility. That isn’t the fault of them playing NAQT questions. They weren’t prepared for the regional tournament by playing on the same nonpyramidal OAC questions multiple times, and I will argue till my dying breathe on that point. Would maybe more play in OAC regionals if they were still playing nonpyramidal OAC in league? Maybe, but they would just be cannon fodder like they have often been. And before someone tells me that they play nonpyramidal OAC all of the time, is it all you play? Is it the only thing you ever play on? I maintain that you are more prepared for regionals by playing on pyramidal tossup/bonus questions than by playing on nonpyramidal OAC. The issue with that, is coaches don’t necessarily want to play a different format when the time comes, even if it has the good qualities you list.

If it isn’t the OAC committee’s job to educate people about the format, who has that job?

I agree that Bob probably didn’t mean it the way it appeared, but I figured I would address it anyway. I didn’t want someone else seeing that and getting the wrong idea. I think we should ask why people are making the choices they are making and not being upset with them. You aren’t going to change anyone’s mind by telling them they are wrong, but by addressing the issues they have. I believe that going to more guaranteed games may make a difference down the road.

I am not surprised about the Sidney thing. I figured it was something like that. It still points to the fact that I’m not sure that winning regionals by itself mean a whole lot. They don’t get you the best 12 teams. They do guarantee that you find the top two teams, but after that, it isn’t even close. I think most of use realize that, but often it appears that not everyone is on the same page about that.
I am sure that is controversial, but I am okay with it.

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Joshua Queen
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Ohio QuizBowl Alliance Tournaments: https://docs.google.com/a/olsd.us/docum ... sp=sharing
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:08 pm 
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I literally was just basically saying it sucks there aren't any other participants in the northwest to help fill that region, nothing more.

Quote:
I would caution viewing the lack of teams from the Northwest as some kind of failing on their part. Maybe some research needs to be done to see if teams that are qualified are choosing not to attend. Maybe it should be figured out why teams are making the choice to not attend. I can think of some teams in the Northwest that have clearly chosen not to attend. Maybe we should ask ourselves why they have made that choice instead of judging them for that choice. I would point out that a similar thing has been happening in the south.

This is accurate. There is a far bigger lack of OAC tournaments in that part of the state than anywhere else.

Quote:
They weren’t prepared for the regional tournament by playing on the same nonpyramidal OAC questions multiple times, and I will argue till my dying breathe on that point.

I also want to point out that I got blasted on twitter by a choice few people earlier this year for writing nonpyramidal OAC questions. I would basically agree with this point for the most part, but every time a league hires me, I ask them (and try to convince them) to order pyramidal tossups and lightning round questions and they always refuse. "We prefer shorter 1 or 2 line questions please" is what I typically hear. I'm not going to refuse to write their questions because they don't want pyramidal questions. I'd rather kids play some kind of quizbowl with short questions but good content than no quizbowl at all.

Quote:
My point is the lack of playing OAC during the year disincentivizes teams to go to OAC regionals and learn another format for one tournament. I will admit that I hear from coaches that don’t want to teach their players another format just for regionals.

I would also agree with this. I think my first year on the committee, we flirted with the idea of running a fall tournament. When that didn't come to fruition, I wrote my OAC fall set and tried to get a mirror for each region and nobody would run it other than Tom at OSU. It was a pretty solid set for the most part and the fact I couldn't get any other mirrors to happen was really frustrating and part of the reason I stopped writing the tournament after 2 years of trying.

Quote:
I am not surprised about the Sidney thing. I figured it was something like that. It still points to the fact that I’m not sure that winning regionals by itself mean a whole lot. They don’t get you the best 12 teams.

I've been involved since 1999 and unfortunately, I can't remember a year when the best 12 (or 10 or 8 back in the day) teams were the ones that made it to Columbus. Its an unfortunate consequence of the way the regionals are set up. If you try to seed teams to send them to certain regions for that to happen, you'd have lots of teams refusing to play because they'd have to travel much further than what would seem logical.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:32 am 
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The original post has been edited to include a link to live updating brackets for all regions! Thanks Josh Eck!!!

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OAC Committee Executive Director
Sidney Coach 2012-2015
Northmont Assistant Coach 2008-2011
Northmont '08


Last edited by gbdriver80 on Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:03 am 
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Quote:
I literally was just basically saying it sucks there aren't any other participants in the northwest to help fill that region, nothing more.


I’ve known you long enough that I knew what you meant, but people that didn’t might not realize that. And even though you don’t think that way, I have been around long enough to know that there are other people that actually think that way.

Quote:
I also want to point out that I got blasted on twitter by a choice few people earlier this year for writing nonpyramidal OAC questions. I would basically agree with this point for the most part, but every time a league hires me, I ask them (and try to convince them) to order pyramidal tossups and lightning round questions and they always refuse. "We prefer shorter 1 or 2 line questions please" is what I typically hear. I'm not going to refuse to write their questions because they don't want pyramidal questions. I'd rather kids play some kind of quizbowl with short questions but good content than no quizbowl at all.


I don’t think I was aware that happened. I don’t think it is your job to educate them. I feel like people in the OAC committee that do not have a business relationship with them should work on educating them. If I do it, then I am just a random guy with an axe to grind. I can’t really say that they would be wrong. If people from the committee would make real efforts, I think things could change. The problem is that the people in charge don’t really understand quiz bowl in any meaningful way. Teach them. It can’t be me, because, come on, who is going to listen to me. Someone, please step up to the plate and try.

I agree that playing on nonpyramidal is better than nothing, but it doesn’t really prepare you for anything. It sort of like how playing COW is better than having never shot a basketball, but you aren’t really ready to play basketball against another team. They both lead to “what the crap just happened” being uttered by someone.

Quote:
I would also agree with this. I think my first year on the committee, we flirted with the idea of running a fall tournament. When that didn't come to fruition, I wrote my OAC fall set and tried to get a mirror for each region and nobody would run it other than Tom at OSU. It was a pretty solid set for the most part and the fact I couldn't get any other mirrors to happen was really frustrating and part of the reason I stopped writing the tournament after 2 years of trying.


Running an OAC tournament is different. I just now got alright at running a tossup/bonus tournament. The longer rounds make things harder. All of the extra copies make things harder. Then you have the same issue I said before. There are coaches that would come to a tossup/bonus tournament that will not come to an OAC tournament, because they don’t want to teach their players a new format. If it makes anyone feel better, there are coaches that are the same way about any tournament that isn’t NAQT. They want to qualify for small school nationals and anything that doesn’t give them that opportunity is disregarded. You don’t have to tell me that is ridiculous.

Quote:
I've been involved since 1999 and unfortunately, I can't remember a year when the best 12 (or 10 or 8 back in the day) teams were the ones that made it to Columbus. Its an unfortunate consequence of the way the regionals are set up. If you try to seed teams to send them to certain regions for that to happen, you'd have lots of teams refusing to play because they'd have to travel much further than what would seem logical.


Yeah, I just threw that in there because I still think there are people that still don’t understand the purpose of the whole thing. It doesn’t even really bother me that much, but there are plenty of people that aren’t on the same page.

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Ohio QuizBowl Alliance Tournaments: https://docs.google.com/a/olsd.us/docum ... sp=sharing
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:24 pm 
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ThePocketProtector wrote:
My point is the lack of playing OAC during the year disincentivizes teams to go to OAC regionals and learn another format for one tournament.

I do not see it this way, at all. In the northern part of the Southeast Region - be it defined as Fairfield, Licking, Delaware, Franklin and Muskingum Counties - both currently and in at least the previous 4-5 years, there are many entrants into the OAC Regionals field that at best only play one OAC event but in the case of many others play zero. A lot of these teams qualify out of leagues that are not OAC format, and play virtually nothing else during the rest of the year: such as Olentangy HS and Orange, Licking Heights, Fairfield Christian, and, in recent years, Bishop Rosecrans, Liberty Union, Granville, to name a few.

ThePocketProtector wrote:
I will admit that I hear from coaches that don’t want to teach their players another format just for regionals.

That is the choice of the coaches. There are plenty of coaches that don't want to do anything to make their teams competitive, in any format. Imagine how competitive, how widespread, and how prominent Ohio quiz bowl would be if every coach was as dedicated and impassioned toward not just the game but also effecting their team's abilities to the maximum as the coaches are on the OAC Committee, as well as coaches such as you and Cortney Bird, to name a few, are. Now imagine how far that expectation is from what reality is today, in Ohio quiz bowl 2019. It's hard to help those who choose not to help themselves; full stop.

ThePocketProtector wrote:
This was more the case when “0-2 then barbeque” was a strong possibility. That isn’t the fault of them playing NAQT questions. They weren’t prepared for the regional tournament by playing on the same nonpyramidal OAC questions multiple times, and I will argue till my dying breathe on that point. Would maybe more play in OAC regionals if they were still playing nonpyramidal OAC in league?

There are teams in the Southeast Region I have both played against, and read for, that come in with paltry at best OAC format experience and make it to Rounds 4 and 5. There are also Central Ohio teams in the Southeast Region that play OAC format in league, and have been seen at an OAC Saturday event, who I have both played and read for, that go 0-2 year in and year out as a regular attendee at regionals - one of those coaches has remarked in the past "these questions benefit private schools and big schools" (this school has enrollment in the 200's-low 300's.)

As for pyramidal/nonpyramidal - who knows? The accessibility and quantity of pyramidal questions found online, both OAC format and non-OAC format, is unprecedented. I don't even think one can find OAC format practice questions that are not pyramidal! Going off on what Bob said - as someone who has co-written like three or four years worth of said league's questions, I most definitely would've liked to have written said questions as pyramidal (but the league politely asks that we don't) and I also would've liked to have even been able to write some questions as representative of what the OAC format looks like today, such as economics being part of the since-blended "American Government/Economics" category (but the league politely asks that all of those questions be government, to which we acquiesce.) I think I can safely speak for both of us when I say that we enjoy writing for said leagues at the end of the day, even if we would prefer to see 1-2 line preferences be eschewed in favor of pyramidal questions.

BobKilner wrote:
Quote:
I am not surprised about the Sidney thing. I figured it was something like that. It still points to the fact that I’m not sure that winning regionals by itself mean a whole lot. They don’t get you the best 12 teams.

I've been involved since 1999 and unfortunately, I can't remember a year when the best 12 (or 10 or 8 back in the day) teams were the ones that made it to Columbus. Its an unfortunate consequence of the way the regionals are set up. If you try to seed teams to send them to certain regions for that to happen, you'd have lots of teams refusing to play because they'd have to travel much further than what would seem logical.


I don't even think it's specifically a consequence of the way regionals are set up, but more so the fact there is no pure way to arbitrate the ranking and seeding of teams 1-xx (1-96, 1-90 etc) and then get those teams to follow rank and go along with dispersion of where teams "should" go in the name of achieving the most fair regionals stage to achieve the end goal of the "best 12" going to Columbus. Not even OHSAA can get that perfect for sports as simple as football: anyone who follows high school football in Ohio knows that, in Division I, the teams who make it to week 12 (field of 16), week 13 (field of 8), week 14 (final four/state semi-finals) and week 15 (championship) are not perfectly the "best sixteen, best eight, best four..." teams left in the state of Ohio because loaded regions like Region 1 (Mentor, St. Ed's, St. Ignatius, Solon etc) and Region 4 (Moeller, St. Xavier, Elder, Colerain etc), where probably 12 of the best 16 teams in Ohio compete in, see the top teams knock off each other so early. Not entirely different than what we see with the West Central and North Coast regions, here.

ThePocketProtector wrote:
I don’t think it is your job to educate them. I feel like people in the OAC committee that do not have a business relationship with them should work on educating them. If I do it, then I am just a random guy with an axe to grind. I can’t really say that they would be wrong. If people from the committee would make real efforts, I think things could change. The problem is that the people in charge don’t really understand quiz bowl in any meaningful way. Teach them. It can’t be me, because, come on, who is going to listen to me. Someone, please step up to the plate and try.

...what is there to "educate"? The format? Format rules, how the game is divided up and all of that good stuff can be easily found on the the OAC website. There are sample questions on the website. It's no more a rodeo of learning the basics than NAQT/tossup and bonus is. To a team that plays some zany "tossups only" league, I personally see acclimating to the OAC format as being no more a burden nor a challenge than, say, tossup/bonus (because, apropos of nothing, you don't need to condition your players on the "when you can and can NOT converse" in OAC the way that one does TU/B.) At the same time, what is the point of the committee educating about the format when so many of these coaches supposedly don't want to teach their students a new format for regionals; who is the audience for this education you advocate for; what would you expect to be different as a result of this education than what you currently see to be the problem necessitating said education? Do you think said education is going to be any more successful and impactful than what these committee members already do by suggesting to teams in their league "give this pyramidal tournament on Saturday a shot"?

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:26 pm 
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As much as the lack of teams in the NW region is frustrating, I'm glad the general numbers have stayed the same (right around 90) and not dropped dramatically.

When I coached at GHHS starting in 2001, that's when we started the transition away from OAC (we still played it but not as much) towards TU/B. My kids didn't mind OAC, but loved tossup-bonus. As I coach now at my current school, the kids hate TU/B and love OAC. Its sort of strange since we only play it once or twice a year at the most.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:23 am 
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Predictions on who advances to Columbus?

NE

1. Copley
2. Hoban

NC

1. Solon
2. Aurora or WRA

NW

1. Sidney
2. Findlay or Columbian

WC

1. Beavercreek
2. Miami Valley

SW

1. Little Miami
2. Walnut Hills

SE

1. Olentangy
2. St. Charles

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:15 am 
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Quote:
NE

1. Copley
2. Hoban

NC

1. Solon
2. Aurora or WRA


I haven't read as much this year as in past years. I expect those two champions to be correct. However, in the NE - Cloverleaf is my pick at #2. They know OAC format well, they're extremely experienced and have a great depth of knowledge. I'd take Aurora in the NC, more so just because I know they're solid. I don't know much about Doug's team over at WRA other than his daughter was phenomenal when I read for her in middle school. I could see either of those two getting out of there.

I don't know anything about some of the other regions except WC - which sucks for Northmont because they're better than almost every other team that will get out of the other regions.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:13 pm 
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Modification for the Regionals bracket to prevent Round 3 rematches is already in the works for future years and State this year

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Sidney Coach 2012-2015
Northmont Assistant Coach 2008-2011
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 OAC Regionals
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Full results, as well as wild card teams, will be posted late tonight. An e-mail will also go out to all teams participating with a digital copy of the questions and full results.

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